John Ziegler along with his microphone in his dwelling workplace in Camarillo, California, on Tuesday, Sept. 27, 2022. Rick Loomis, for the Deseret Information
John Ziegler sits in his dwelling workplace from the place he does his radio and TV interviews in Camarillo, California, on Tuesday, Sept. 27, 2022. He labored for KFI AM radio in Los Angeles from 2003 to 2007 and now works on a wide range of documentaries and podcasts. His newest podcast, which he hopes to launch subsequent month, is named “The Dying of Journalism.” Rick Loomis, for the Deseret Information
Prompted off digicam by his daughter Grace, 10, John Ziegler demonstrates how he's typically very animated throughout recorded discussions. He was photographed in his Camarillo, California, dwelling on Tuesday, Sept. 27, 2022. Rick Loomis, for the Deseret Information
John Ziegler helps his daughter Grace, 10, do her homework on the kitchen desk of their dwelling in Camarillo, California, on Tuesday, Sept. 27, 2022. Rick Loomis, for the Deseret Information
John Ziegler performs along with his daughters Grace, 10, (dealing with entrance) and Diana, 5, within the courtyard of their dwelling in Camarillo, California, on Tuesday, Sept. 27, 2022. Rick Loomis, for the Deseret Information
Essentially the most well-known speak radio host you’ve by no means heard of might be John Ziegler. For years, the Los Angeles podcaster and writer bobbed tantalizingly near the very best ranges of speak radio stardom; he crammed in when Matt Drudge had a radio present and says for some time, he was being groomed to fill-in for Rush Limbaugh.
In 2005, Ziegler was profiled by famous author David Foster Wallace in a well-known cowl story for The Atlantic. In more moderen years, Ziegler turned identified for his heterodox politics — he was conservative by most measures, however he didn’t like Donald Trump. And that value him.
“In a really actual sense,” Ziegler mused after Trump’s 2016 win, “my present was an experiment to check whether or not it was potential for a radio present that merely referred to as issues like I noticed them, and which didn’t consciously pander to the majority of the ‘conservative’ viewers which listens to speak radio, might endure.”
The experiment, he concluded, failed.
Though he stays busy with podcasting and different initiatives, Ziegler’s most common work today is parenting his younger daughters and tending to his 57,000-plus followers on Twitter, the place he goes by “Zigmanfreud.” Extra lately, he made waves for being one of many earliest skeptics on Twitter elevating his eyebrows relating to allegations of racial heckling at a Duke-BYU ladies’s volleyball sport.
Though he has no connection to BYU, and even, for that matter, to Utah, Ziegler was within the story as a result of it indulged two of his passions: excoriating the information media and ferreting out the reality about broadly believed tales that don’t move the odor take a look at.
“There have been many instances, most likely far too many instances, that I've jumped available grenades for folks I've no connection to,” he stated in a current interview over Zoom. “I've this weird quirk in my DNA the place I actually care about reality and justice, and it actually bothers me when persons are accused of issues that didn’t occur, and it was apparent to me from very early on within the BYU-Duke story that what was being alleged didn't occur.”
BYU’s investigation, which was later reviewed by the West Coast Convention, discovered no proof of racial slurs and several other commentators ultimately backed off from their criticism of the college and its followers.
It was the newest in a string of questionable tales Ziegler says he’s debunked, from actor Jussie Smollett saying he was the sufferer of a hate crime, to a 5-year-old stated to have died within the arms of knowledgeable Santa Claus. Ziegler’s occupational hazard could also be courting controversy, however the “host” has managed to construct a profession betting in opposition to the home.
John Ziegler sits in his dwelling workplace from the place he does his radio and TV interviews in Camarillo, California, on Tuesday, Sept. 27, 2022. He labored for KFI AM radio in Los Angeles from 2003 to 2007 and now works on a wide range of documentaries and podcasts. His newest podcast, which he hopes to launch subsequent month, is named “The Dying of Journalism.”
Rick Loomis, for the Deseret Information
When Wallace, the a lot vaunted author who died by suicide in 2008, selected Ziegler because the face of conservative speak radio for his deep dive into what Wallace referred to as a “scary” trade, Ziegler was 37 years outdated and laboring in a late-night slot on KFI AM in Los Angeles, the place he labored from 2003 to 2007. It was, Wallace wrote, “both the eighth or ninth host job that Mr. Ziegler’s had in his talk-radio profession, and much and away the most important.”
That, in line with Ziegler, was one in all three inaccuracies within the opening paragraph of “Host.” Ziegler provides Wallace extra leeway on his job historical past than he does on the opposite issues he says have been flawed. (Ziegler says he didn't drive a U-Haul from Louisville to LA, as Wallace wrote, and lived in Burbank, California, not close to Koreatown.)
However Ziegler was prepared to dismiss a lot of what was flawed within the piece as artistic license, although the 23-page article broadly painted speak radio as destructive for society.
“John Ziegler shouldn't be a journalist — he's an entertainer,” Wallace wrote. “Or possibly it’s higher to say that he's a part of a peculiar, trendy, and extremely popular kind of reports trade, one which manages to benefit from the authority and affect of journalism with out the stodgy constraints of equity, objectivity, and accountability that make making an attempt to inform the reality such a drag for everybody concerned.”
Ziegler, who grew up Catholic in Philadelphia, stated he didn’t know who Wallace was when the author first contacted him in 2003. Wallace was then instructing at Pomona Faculty in Claremont and his novel “Infinite Jest” had garnered acclaim, however Ziegler didn’t look into the background of the stranger who wished to shadow him for weeks and didn’t know till the article got here out that it will be a canopy story for a serious journal.
Even when he had, he wouldn’t have identified that the article would turn out to be one that might path him for his total profession. After Wallace’s suicide at age 46, “Host” and different essays revealed within the assortment “Take into account the Lobster,” together with Wallace’s novels, had heightened worth. A signed first version goes for $917 on-line at this writing.
“(Writer and commentator) David Frum, when he and I met, the very first thing he stated to me was, ‘100 years after you’re lifeless, that’s all anybody will know of you, that David Foster Wallace piece.’
“I assumed, is that a praise? It was an odd factor to listen to, nevertheless it’s most likely true. From the standpoint of historical past, it’s an odd declare to fame.”
Ziegler stated that he doesn’t remorse giving Wallace entry to his life and profession, though he most likely would have dealt with it in another way if he’d identified who the author was.
“Frankly, he was so personally unimpressive that it by no means occurred to me to trouble to search out out who he was as a result of I didn’t assume there was any probability he was anyone of be aware — form of hilariously, looking back. Had he been a homeless individual, I might not have been shocked.
“I’m positive he was very amused by the truth that I didn't know who he was. ... However possibly it was a greater story as a result of I simply didn’t care. (I stated,) ‘Right here I'm, warts and all, write what you need to write.’ And he did.”
Prompted off digicam by his daughter Grace, 10, John Ziegler demonstrates how he's typically very animated throughout recorded discussions. He was photographed in his Camarillo, California, dwelling on Tuesday, Sept. 27, 2022.
Rick Loomis, for the Deseret Information
Though he earned a level from Georgetown College in authorities, Ziegler started his profession as a sports activities broadcaster. This was within the early years of the “Rush Limbaugh Present,” when conservative speak radio appeared new and scorching. Quickly sufficient, as Ziegler instructed Wallace, he figured “possibly my controversial nature would work higher on speak radio.”
Given the volatility of speak radio, having a CV punctuated by a sure staccato is one thing of a badge of honor. “Any person within the trade stated, in case you haven’t been fired quite a bit, you’re not any good,” he stated. And Ziegler, like many others within the discipline, typically appeared to discover a higher job after the lack of one.
As Ziegler identified in a letter to the editor of The Atlantic, by the point the article “Host” was revealed, he was not broadcasting late at night time, however had moved to the extra fascinating 7 p.m. slot and shortly thereafter revealed a e book referred to as “The Dying of Free Speech,” during which he detailed how he bought fired from a sportscasting job after making a joke about O.J. Simpson’s innocence.
It was the primary of a number of firings for saying extraordinarily controversial or taboo issues. Certainly, as soon as he was “fired, rehired and fired once more inside a three-week interval by an FM station that was going by means of a serious format shift from conventional speak to ‘All Madonna, on a regular basis.’” he wrote in “The Dying of Free Speech.”
“I definitely do take possibilities. However that’s what makes for good speak radio,” he stated. “Nobody ever accused my exhibits of being boring. That was by no means a priority.” One want solely scroll by means of Twitter to see that others have accused him of many different issues. In truth, Ziegler makes a behavior of retweeting, with out remark, each pejorative thrown his means.
He’s even turn out to be controversial amongst conservatives.
Working with co-host Leah Brandon, one other veteran of KFI in Los Angeles, he was a part of “The John and Leah Present,” which lasted 19 months on a small community of 24 stations and ended shortly after Trump was elected. “There was no path,” for the present after Trump’s election, stated Ziegler, who was and stays vehemently anti-Trump. “That created friction between Leah and I,” he stated. “I wasn’t going to waste anybody’s cash, however there simply was no path (for the present’s success) as soon as Trump gained.”
That freed up extra time for one more challenge of the previous 10 years, investigating the Penn State intercourse abuse scandal and producing a podcast referred to as “With the Good thing about Hindsight...” that Ziegler says “could have you questioning the whole lot you thought you knew about this case.” (The case can also be prominently featured on his YouTube channel.)
Today, Ziegler tweets voraciously, normally about sports activities and politics, and generally in regards to the household he by no means thought he’d have.
In a few years, possibly sooner, it is going to be unattainable to consider that my two ladies as soon as went to highschool voluntarily dressed like this to have a good time the official begin of Halloween month… pic.twitter.com/RgJU4eTkJs
— John Ziegler (@Zigmanfreud) October 4, 2022
He stated he by no means meant to get married as a result of he didn’t need to topic a spouse to the approach to life and controversy that comes with being a bunch. However that modified after he met his wife-to-be when, on the five-year anniversary of the 2001 terror assaults, he invited native lecturers to be on his present to speak about how 9/11 was being taught in faculties.
After assembly the middle-school trainer who would ultimately turn out to be his spouse, Ziegler stated his co-host instructed him, “It's best to date her.” They’ve been married 12 years, and have two daughters, 10 and 5.
“Sarcastically sufficient, if I have been in speak radio, I’d be a much better host at this time than I ever was in my life. ... However the trade has modified a lot that there’s actually no place for any individual like me.”
Ziegler stated he has survived the lean instances as a result of he has been frugal with cash and invested nicely, understanding that the trade was unpredictable.
He additionally has had quite a few different initiatives, reminiscent of making documentaries and writing for publications that embrace Mediaite, the place he was one of many first folks to query the validity of a viral story in 2016 of a 5-year-old dying within the arms of a mall Santa Claus.
John Ziegler helps his daughter Grace, 10, do her homework on the kitchen desk of their dwelling in Camarillo, California, on Tuesday, Sept. 27, 2022.
Rick Loomis, for the Deseret Information
Utilizing the identical form of reasoning that prompted him to be skeptical of the BYU-Duke story, Ziegler identified a scarcity of particulars and a puzzling timeline. Regardless of the pink flags, there have been a burst of headlines that also exist on the web reminiscent of “Sick little one dies in Santa’s arms.” The newspaper that first revealed the column later up to date the file to say that the details of the story couldn’t be verified, inflicting different information retailers that wrote in regards to the story, together with The Washington Put up, to publish what amounted to retractions.
Ziegler applies an equation he invented to find out the likelihood of a narrative being unfaithful.
“You give three issues a score on a scale of 1 to 10. First, what's the degree of proof that you'd anticipate to see if a narrative was true? Take that quantity and divide it by the precise proof in existence. Then multiply that quantity by how a lot the information media desires a narrative to be true. Any story that will get a quantity 25 or increased might be false.
“(BYU-Duke volleyball) was a forty five,” he stated, including of his equation, “I ought to most likely copyright this.”
As for the long run, Ziegler plans to proceed with podcasting; not surprisingly, his subsequent challenge, accessible inside the subsequent few weeks by means of Workhouse Productions, will tackle what he sees because the disintegration of credible media. It’s referred to as “The Dying of Journalism.”
“I'm not a conspiracy individual ... however I consider reality is in grave peril on this nation,” he stated.
He doesn't, nonetheless, see a path to a different speak radio present, both native or nationwide, saying that the medium is now “remedy for Trump conservatives. There’s no area for people who find themselves going to problem the considering of the viewers.”
This bothers him, not solely due to the implications for the nation, however as a result of he worries about how his daughters see him, as somebody with no “common” job, who's most all the time round and talks quite a bit in entrance of a pretend background in his dwelling. “It’s very troublesome to elucidate to my 10-year-old what I do, although she sees the Emmy (award) in the lounge and thinks it’s cool.” (The Emmy was for 9/11 protection for a TV speak present in Philadelphia that he labored for from 2001-2002.)
Discuss radio, he says, has gone from broadcasting to a big viewers, to “narrowcasting” to “cultcasting” within the Trump period.
“Sarcastically sufficient, if I have been in speak radio, I’d be a much better host at this time than I ever was in my life. ... However the trade has modified a lot that there’s actually no place for any individual like me. I’m a sq. peg in a round-hole world.”
John Ziegler performs along with his daughters Grace, 10, (dealing with entrance) and Diana, 5, within the courtyard of their dwelling in Camarillo, California, on Tuesday, Sept. 27, 2022.
Rick Loomis, for the Deseret Information